Reimagine: Building a better post-COVID-19 future

Season 2, episode 7

Reimagine: Building a better post-COVID-19 future

Children and young people have a unique ability to reimagine a more equal, just and sustainable world. This World Children’s Day, we hear from young citizens about what they hope to see in a post-COVID-19 world. UNICEF Canada Ambassador, Actor Simu Liu joins us to talk about his support for UNICEF and we hear about UNICEF's role in the incredible global effort towards ensuring fair and equitable access to a COVID-19 vaccine.

Producers: Victoria Ptashnick, Priyadarshini Mitra

Sound Mix and Original Music / Arrangement : Chandra Bulucon

Episode Transcript:

[00:00:00.49] [MUSIC PLAYING]

[00:00:04.90] Being a young person is tough at the best of times. 2020 has made it tougher still. It's difficult for young people to be optimistic about the future when loved ones and people around the world are facing such challenges.

[00:00:19.84] Everything feels out of control. When will the pandemic end? What will be different when it's over?

[00:00:27.78] The pandemic has also exposed the weaknesses in our system in society like systemic racism and reframed how we define common concepts like essential workers. It has made many of us wonder, do we really want to go back to normal, or is this the time to rethink everything?

[00:00:48.91] What's more? Decisions being made by leaders and governments at this time will directly impact current and future generations. This is why young people demand a say in their own future, and why it's so important that we listen. I'm David Morley, President and CEO of UNICEF Canada, and the host of out For Every Child podcast.

[00:01:13.98] [MUSIC PLAYING]

[00:01:23.11] On today's episode, we hear from our young citizens about what they want to see in a post-COVID world. We'll also hear about an incredible global effort, where UNICEF is playing a key role. One that will ensure fair, equitable access to a COVID-19 vaccine, changing the lives of children, families, and communities around the globe.

[00:01:48.28] On November 20, we celebrate World Children's Day, or National Child Day here in Canada. It marks the promise world leaders made by signing on to the convention on the rights of the child to protect and fulfill every child's right to a childhood.

[00:02:07.66] This promise is of great significance this year as the COVID-19 health crisis has become a child rights crisis. The coronavirus pandemic has laid bare the deep inequalities in our societies that leave some children far more at risk than others. We've seen millions of children missing out on basic health care, cut off from education, and left without protection simply because they were born into poverty, or because of their ethnicity, religion, or race.

[00:02:41.86] Young people will never accept that we should return to normal after the pandemic because they know normal was never good enough. They want to build back better.

[00:02:53.68] And here's the exciting part. Children have a unique and unparalleled ability to reimagine a more equal just, and sustainable world. Leading up to World Children's Day, UNICEF Canada and partners convened six stay in to speak out sessions on key issues identified by youth to listen and learn from them.

[00:03:17.93] I have with me today two young people, who were part of some of those sessions to talk about how they plan to take back their futures. Welcome [? Haban ?] and Abram.

[00:03:30.25] [? Haban, ?] you're currently a student and have been on the prime minister's youth council in Toronto Public Health's Youth Health Action Network. As someone very involved in our democracy, what would you like to see change in how other young people participate, and have their voices heard by decision makers?

[00:03:49.15] That's a really good question. I strongly believe that power and space should be given to young people. There's a myth that young people are apathetic, and not engaged in our democracy. However, youth are heavily involved and lead non-conventional forms of civic action, including participation in demonstrations, protests, marches, leading them as well, signing petitions, writing articles, and blogs, and sharing on social media.

[00:04:13.45] And this type of engagement comes about because youth are often ignored, and brushed to the side in traditional forms of civic engagement, whether that be voting, talking to your elected official, or policy-making structures. However, youth are usually indicators for social progress in just democracies. So we have a really high stake in decisions being made, and we have well-informed political opinions and experiences lived in living experiences and educational backgrounds. So I would love to see power and space, and respect being given to young people.

[00:04:45.07] You're right that young people are inserting themselves in decision-making in a way that we haven't seen for a long time. And many young people say that lowering the voting age is a path to make sure that they have a say in democracy. What would you say to people who think that young people don't have the maturity to vote?

[00:05:09.53] That's a very interesting take. Maturity isn't defined by age, and maturity is a litmus test for adults, who have the right to vote. So I don't think it should be applied to youth as well.

[00:05:20.68] If we can drive, if we can contribute to our communities in meaningful ways, if we pay taxes, and are impacted by decisions being made, why is it that some young people can't vote? I think we have a really huge stake in our democracy. Probably the highest stake across any other age demographic.

[00:05:38.77] And we are currently in the midst of many crises. A racial justice crisis, the climate crisis, and a pandemic to name a few. Every single decision that's being made is going to have long-term repercussions for our futures. And that future isn't really looking promising at this time.

[00:05:55.73] Abram, you are a climate activist. You've been working coming from Edmonton. And you've seen and mobilized youth participation. During this pandemic, though, how has climate change activism, and the work around it been impacted?

[00:06:13.09] That's a really interesting question. And I think that it has unsavory answer to it that this pandemic has negatively affected a lot of activism going on in the community. I've seen multiple groups within my own community take in a lot less action, due to not only the fact that it's more difficult to organize when there's a pandemic, and also that a lot of actions that you cannot take because it would be a high COVID risk activity, and it would generally look bad if you held a rally during a pandemic.

[00:06:47.84] However, that isn't to mean that things have stopped. We've continued doing things online. We've continued with webinars. We've continued with other opportunities to try and educate other youths, as well as adults to try and help get our word out.

[00:07:02.62] But I think that the main thing during this pandemic that we've been trying to get in to people's heads and trying to make very clear is that just because the pandemic is the most important issue right now, the fact is that after this pandemic is done and over, climate change will still be there. We'll have lost years in the grand term of things, and we'll still need to focus on it. And that's the main thing that we've been pushing in the climate community, so that when this pandemic finally ends, we can have a strong start back.

[00:07:36.30] I think that feeling of having a strong start back is really important. And so it's a question I think of for both of you, when the pandemic is over, what does a reimagined future look like for you? And what can young people do to bring about that change?

[00:07:59.16] This moment is definitely special. It's scary. It's sad. But this pandemic is a once in a lifetime moment.

[00:08:04.99] And we do need to maximize the opportunity to build back better, to focus on the experience of populations, who are pushed to the margins, and are continuously being pushed to the margins, even during this pandemic. And we need our leaders in society, specifically our youth to be at the front lines, building our futures. And that's exactly what I'm seeing with a lot of young people today.

[00:08:25.62] All issues are youth issues. And it's time to meaningfully partner with young people, so we can have a say in building better futures and in building our futures. The future I want is a fair and just future, where every single child in this country has access to food, water, education, and housing, and a well-being that is free of oppression, specifically systemic racism.

[00:08:47.19] I want to see income inequality reduced. I want to see the opportunity gap closed. I want to see health disparities reduced. I want a criminal justice system that's reimagined, so that we can all have healthy and safe communities for every single person in this country instead of a select few, which we are currently seeing in Canada.

[00:09:05.10] And then for me, I think that my vision of the future, very closely mirrors [? Haban's. ?] But I want to add to it, that I think it also includes a lot of reimagined way that we live our lives, not on the individual level. Because I do believe that this idea of individuals impacting climate change is just a diversion, and an ineffective in the grand scheme of things way of dealing with this climate crisis.

[00:09:36.34] But I think that we need to see strong government action coming forth to limit the effects, and hopefully, within a reasonable time frame completely stop the effects of climate change. I think that it includes transitioning. The way we make energy in this country, I believe that it includes giving incentives to other countries to change the way that they make their powers. I think it includes just a complete revival of the Earth, and its biosphere, and to focus on these issues, and to focus on sustainability for many decades to come.

[00:10:15.87] For both of you, it's a challenge that you're taking on about building a more just and environmentally sustainable world. And I think we need to have social sustainability and environmental sustainability because they will come together.

[00:10:33.61] Thank you both. You've certainly, in our short discussion, given me a lot to think about. And I'm glad that you were able to highlight some of the solutions that you see for our future. And for our listeners, you can hear more from Abram and [? Haban, ?] and other young people around their vision for a reimagined future at our take back the future event, which will be on November 20. You can go to oneyouth.unicef.ca to find out more.

[00:11:06.66] Our next guest, too, had a great interest in hearing from young people about their hopes and ideas. In between his busy schedule, shooting for his hit TV show, Kim's Convenience and Marvel's upcoming superhero film Shang-Chi, and the Legend of the Ten Rings, our brand new UNICEF Canada ambassador, Simu Liu made time to interact with young people. He's been an adult ally to them during one of the stay in to speak out sessions.

[00:11:39.34] He's joining our World Children's Day celebrations on social media, and will participate in our November 20 take back the future virtual event. So without further ado, here is Simu.

[00:11:54.15] Hello. Thank you so much for your support so far. What motivated you to become a UNICEF Canada ambassador, and play such an active role?

[00:12:05.59] Honestly, when I got into this business years and years and years ago, I didn't necessarily expect to be taking on responsibilities greater than just being an actor. That's what I thought I'd be doing. But just the way that my career has progressed over the past few years, being lucky enough to be a part of a groundbreaking show like Kim's Convenience, which is such a shining beacon of diversity and inclusion, I found myself thrust into this position, where I was representing something greater than just a public figure, just an actor.

[00:12:47.41] Playing a part. It became a part of a greater movement. And really started to make me realize that this was a platform that I could use to affect real positive change in the world. And then it became about, OK, well, just because I can affect change, doesn't mean I should affect change.

[00:13:04.91] What are the best ways that we can affect change and looking at all of the different issues in the world that plague us? And of course, there are many-- at the end of the day, I think making sure that children all over the world have access to health care, have access to clean water, and education, and vaccines is critically important, and something that I'm more than happy to use my platform to help in any way that I can.

[00:13:34.88] Why do you think this is so important truly listening, and hearing from young people, especially at this time?

[00:13:42.77] Well, I think you hit the nail on the head with the question. I mean, we are living in an unprecedented time, and certainly a time that I think will be reflected in history for many years to come. And how we respond to this global pandemic today will be echoed for years to come.

[00:14:05.66] And so to that end, I feel like it's our children, and it's our young people who, at the end of the day, will be living with the impacts of this pandemic, and how we choose to respond to it. And so I really do feel like they need to be included in those decisions that affect their future.

[00:14:23.68] This is a time for us for generations to come together to reimagine the type of world that we want to create. And as a global community, not just as separate pockets. And we need to together listen to children and young people, and work alongside them to build and design a better future.

[00:14:41.03] It's no secret that we live in one of the most divisive times that humanity has ever lived through. I think the way that we consume media now has shifted so fundamentally than the way that we did even 10 years ago. And what that's led to is just pockets of people consuming different media basically living in different realities and unable to reconcile their differences.

[00:15:07.69] And one of these things is systemic racism is this idea that not every single person is born with the same opportunities in a country like Canada, or a country like the United States. It's that there are systemic factors in place that limit the upward social mobility of many of these minority people. And it's something that is undisputable. It's backed up by data.

[00:15:34.00] And yet it's something that is hotly, hotly debated. And what I hope comes out of these discussions with young people, and with children is they take a chance to listen to each other to engage in constructive discussion and dialogue, and to really bring people closer together, so that we can really operate from the same set of facts, so that we can finally live under the same reality, and acknowledge that this is a problem that we face as a society, and to take active steps towards building a better one.

[00:16:15.70] What is your hope for children on this World Children's Day?

[00:16:20.26] You touched on it earlier when you mentioned reimagining. And I think that's what these discussions that we've been having all months. Should do. I mean, I think the purpose is to re-imagine a society that is not plagued by the problems that we deal with today.

[00:16:38.32] And I found myself in these last few years transitioning out of the young people cohort and becoming one of the other people. The grownups, the adults. And I'm finding that we don't always have it right.

[00:16:51.58] The systems that we have put in place, whether that's in law enforcement, or politics, or health care, they're not necessarily perfect. And they, in some cases, fail a great number of people. And usually, the people that disproportionately are affected by the shortcomings of these systems are minorities, people of color.

[00:17:11.35] As a person of color who has experienced discrimination throughout his life. And specifically, too, as an Asian man during the time of COVID, it's been really interesting seeing the way the world has reacted to that.

[00:17:24.43] And I think the world just at this point needs to re-imagine. Imagine a better system. Imagine a system that works for each and every person, each and every child everywhere. And not just the few and the privileged.

[00:17:40.72] Thank you, Simu. Your vision for a better tomorrow is truly inspiring. To get this reimagined future, we must find a way to end the pandemic. The world's eyes are fixed on the race for a vaccine to be that solution.

[00:17:58.24] Through UNICEF's rich expertise on immunization, we have realized that when diseases spread faster than vaccines, the ones most vulnerable pay the highest price. So as the COVID-19 vaccine development process is moving fast ahead, UNICEF is paving the way to make sure it reaches every person in need.

[00:18:21.67] We have with us Benjamin Schreiber, Deputy Chief for UNICEF's Global Immunization Program. At this point in time, one of his biggest projects is getting countries ready to receive COVID-19 vaccines. Welcome, Benjamin.

[00:18:37.99] Thank you, David. Thanks. I'm happy to be here.

[00:18:40.58] We're happy to have you with us. I know you've spent the good part of a decade working on vaccines. And then COVID-19 hits. What's it like having the world suddenly so focused on the very topic you've been working on for so long?

[00:18:58.49] Yeah. Thanks. It's a great question. And I think there is a few points to raise here. I mean, I feel sometimes I'm in a storm, in the middle of the sea, and there's pieces of wood, or different pieces of material floating around you. And you are asked to build a ship while you swim in the sea. And not all pieces are really visible. And you have a very short time frame to get everybody on the ship.

[00:19:25.22] Yeah. So that's how I feel. And just to put into context, the pieces I'm seeing in the sea are all the different BC that there's vaccines coming our way. But we don't know yet the shape and form that they're going to have, the cold chain profile, and what date they're going to get regulatory approval.

[00:19:45.70] So this is why we have this problem of not seeing all the pieces, and they are slowly emerging. The other thing is a short timeline. Normally, we spent 12 to 18 months preparing the country for a new vaccine being introduced. And now, we have a few months to do that across the globe.

[00:20:04.78] And it's not only one two or three countries. We're talking about introducing the vaccine in every country globally. So that's a huge task.

[00:20:13.98] That is a huge task. So tell us a bit more about what it is that you're working to ensure.

[00:20:21.21] We need to ensure that the new products that are being developed, the new vaccines that are being developed are available to our countries. And there is a fair and equitable allocation of these products. In the absence of working together, we would have really a very only the rich countries would get access to these vaccines. They would make deals with the manufacturers, et cetera.

[00:20:45.93] So that's why we also developed what we call the COVAX facility. And the COVAX facility is a way to bundle the demand of all these countries into a pool, and then make sure that, on the other hand, we have a portfolio of suppliers that provide safe vaccines that have gone through rigorous testing. And that these are then rolled out to all the countries in the world in one form or another. But at least it's a fair and equitable allocation across the globe.

[00:21:26.45] And why is it so important that we have to go all around the world for this vaccine? And when children haven't been that affected by the virus itself, how is this important for children.

[00:21:47.59] It's a good question. And let me explain a bit how this will play out. So in the absence of a vaccine, the virus will continue to circulate.

[00:22:02.25] And what happens, we've seen that in the past is it affects the health system. The health systems stop working. That means children in the end are not getting the critical care that they need.

[00:22:17.46] They don't get protected. They don't get their normal immunization shots. So they don't get protected from measles, or pneumonia, or diarrhea.

[00:22:26.16] They don't get any treatment. If they're malnourished, there is no essential services that are working to ensure that to overcome this malnourishment. In the absence of having herd immunity and having people vaccinated, these essential services are at risk, and children are, therefore, not protected and are vulnerable and will see an impact.

[00:22:52.65] And given that importance, maybe what is UNICEF's involvement in the COVAX project?

[00:23:03.58] As I mentioned, the COVAX is a global partnership, and also financing facility that deals with demand and supply of vaccines to countries. And UNICEF is playing two important roles here. The first role is that UNICEF is working with countries to ensure that they get ready.

[00:23:26.89] And to do this, we develop tools, guidance, training, materials, so that countries can roll these out, and ensure that they can accommodate and receive the vaccine. So in practical terms, if you look what needs to be put in place, you need the infrastructure, you need to store and transport the vaccine. So you need to have your cold chain ready.

[00:23:50.86] Cold chain is in layman's terms is like is fridges walk in cold rooms, where we store vaccines. These are specialized equipment. That is not your normal fridge to make sure that there's adequate amount of storage space before we deploy these vaccines, and send them to the countries.

[00:24:08.08] We need to identify who needs to be trained. So health workers need to be trained to vaccinate the target populations. So we need to identify, which health workers, how many need to be trained.

[00:24:19.72] And then in the moment as we are in the pandemic, how do we train them? So we're developing online and video-based learning modules, so that we move away from the normal face-to-face learning, so that health workers in the front line can do the learning at distance.

[00:24:37.17] Second aspect is that we work on the so-called we are the procurement agent for the COVAX facility. And that means we will buy on behalf of 92 low and middle income countries the vaccine, and we make sure that these vaccines are then shipped to the countries. And that's a huge effort.

[00:24:58.46] If you think about that we have to provide 2 billion doses of vaccines in the next year, we are ready. The largest procurer of vaccines worldwide. And we're going to double our procurement volume just in the next year.

[00:25:16.73] And it's not only vaccines. We also just finished the procurement of half a million doses of syringes. So that's another part how UNICEF contributes to the COVAX facility.

[00:25:30.80] It's so much from half a billion syringes to the cold chain in remote areas to the training of health workers. It's an incredible effort. And you, Benjamin, what are you doing? What's your role in this effort?

[00:25:53.61] Yeah. No. I laugh because it's changing. And like I said, in the beginning, it's sometimes, like I feel like I'm the storm in the middle of the sea. So I'm trying to identify those pieces to make sure that other people are there to help putting the ship together.

[00:26:12.99] And it's not an effort. It's an effort by UNICEF, WHO, Gavi, many partners around the world. And especially governments that all have to be all of the pull, and work to build this ship, and then sail it forward.

[00:26:28.18] So my role is really helping with the coordination, make sure all partners come together, make sure we really have high quality technical guidance, and the work is ready, so that the health worker knows what to do with the vaccine, how to vaccinate, and how to engage the community. Then the final piece is also, we need to make sure that resources are available, that the resources are also targeted to the key priorities.

[00:26:54.96] And Benjamin, what's the most gratifying thing for you in this?

[00:27:01.56] So the most gratifying for me in this whole endeavor is seeing how everybody is coming together, how everybody is really keen to make this work, how we address problems quickly head on, and how we are able to do that while working remotely, and while people connecting around the globe on this.

[00:27:27.60] The other day, we had 500 government officials in a webinar from 92 countries. And everybody joined in, and everybody asked brilliant questions. And we were able to provide good answers.

[00:27:44.34] And people are really engaged and want to succeed, make it a success. That's really the incredible work that I can see is happening. And that's really nice.

[00:27:56.61] That must be incredibly gratifying. I've been lucky enough to work on a couple of vaccinations. Small vaccination campaigns. I know how difficult that work that you're trying to do can be.

[00:28:10.45] But I know how successful we can make it happen because we know how to do vaccination campaigns. And I know it's people like you, Benjamin, who are heroes in this. And on behalf of all of our listeners, I just want to say thank you to you for what you're doing, and the incredibly important leadership, and support that you're giving to something which will change the world. Thanks a lot, Benjamin.

[00:28:41.07] Thanks for having me really appreciate it.

[00:28:45.88] That brings us to the end of our episode for November. If you liked what you heard, and want to learn more about COVAX, World Children's Day, or anything else regarding the work we do, please visit unicef.ca. Thank you for listening, and we'll be back next month with another episode.

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